Comments on: Film critic Roger Ebert still insists that video games are not art http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm Mon, 13 Feb 2012 08:53:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Kabapu http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm/comment-page-1#comment-228829 Kabapu Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:31:22 +0000 http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm#comment-228829 So ... he bases his arguments that videogames are *not* art on the "definition of the vast majority of games" but then goes on to quote Pauline Kael saying, "The movies are so rarely great art, that if we cannot appreciate great trash, we have no reason to go." So he hasn't played any games, but bases his opinion on his perceived definition that the "vast majority" are not art, therefore none are art (which is a falacious argument to begin with). But when it comes to movies, which he also argues the vast majority are not art, some apparently can be. He obviously has no idea what he's talking about. No wonder I never paid any attention to his reviews. So … he bases his arguments that videogames are *not* art on the “definition of the vast majority of games” but then goes on to quote Pauline Kael saying, “The movies are so rarely great art, that if we cannot appreciate great trash, we have no reason to go.”

So he hasn’t played any games, but bases his opinion on his perceived definition that the “vast majority” are not art, therefore none are art (which is a falacious argument to begin with).

But when it comes to movies, which he also argues the vast majority are not art, some apparently can be.

He obviously has no idea what he’s talking about. No wonder I never paid any attention to his reviews.

]]> By: Reeteshinator http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm/comment-page-1#comment-228790 Reeteshinator Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:25:53 +0000 http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm#comment-228790 Man, he is acting like a grown up child, Maybe he has been having a slow year, so wanted to shoot to publicity in the "in crowd" Man, he is acting like a grown up child, Maybe he has been having a slow year, so wanted to shoot to publicity in the “in crowd”

]]> By: pixelsword http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm/comment-page-1#comment-228746 pixelsword Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:47:57 +0000 http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm#comment-228746 I think Ebert is correct, but he is also not correct. I think Barker's points were overall weak, but let me explain: Ebert is correct in assuming that art is not malleable. A finished work isn't revised, remixed, or contains "episodic content". But he is incorrect in thinking that games are any more malleable than a painting or sculpture. Games are a finished work, it's only the perspective of the player or "viewer" that changes...and that's for any piece of art. Games have set parameters that can only be manupulated within the thoughts and actions of the person, just like any piece of art. With a game, I can't generally create content, change the voice of the characters, nor derive from the conclusion(s) preset from the designer's intent. Just like art, I cannot deviate from the set path. Think about it: If the artist is 6'6", and I am only 5'6", does my perspective invalidate his work as art because I am not able to view it from his perspective? What if I can only view it from afar, or at certain angles, yet on the identical linear perspective of the artist's intention? Or at a certain time of day, like during lunch breaks? What about lighting? All of these factors are dynamic, just like a video game, yet none of these parameters discount it as being a work of art. Look at books, for example: books only provide only so much detail, but we ourselves fill in the gap, just like mods. When reading Les Miserables, what was Jean Valjean's clothing like for you? Was he Caucasian, or Corsican, or of African Descent? All three peoples were in France around that time (The Three Musketeers was written by a man of African descent, to prove my point) and all three would be valid. Were all of the houses painted, or plain, or on crooked roads? We ourselves wern't provided with all of the facts, so we "modded" it to our liking in our mind and went on with the story. Overall, art is something that is in the perspective of the person experiencing it in my often wrong opinion. I think Ebert is correct, but he is also not correct. I think Barker’s points were overall weak, but let me explain:

Ebert is correct in assuming that art is not malleable. A finished work isn’t revised, remixed, or contains “episodic content”. But he is incorrect in thinking that games are any more malleable than a painting or sculpture. Games are a finished work, it’s only the perspective of the player or “viewer” that changes…and that’s for any piece of art.

Games have set parameters that can only be manupulated within the thoughts and actions of the person, just like any piece of art. With a game, I can’t generally create content, change the voice of the characters, nor derive from the conclusion(s) preset from the designer’s intent. Just like art, I cannot deviate from the set path.

Think about it: If the artist is 6’6″, and I am only 5’6″, does my perspective invalidate his work as art because I am not able to view it from his perspective? What if I can only view it from afar, or at certain angles, yet on the identical linear perspective of the artist’s intention? Or at a certain time of day, like during lunch breaks? What about lighting? All of these factors are dynamic, just like a video game, yet none of these parameters discount it as being a work of art.

Look at books, for example: books only provide only so much detail, but we ourselves fill in the gap, just like mods. When reading Les Miserables, what was Jean Valjean’s clothing like for you? Was he Caucasian, or Corsican, or of African Descent? All three peoples were in France around that time (The Three Musketeers was written by a man of African descent, to prove my point) and all three would be valid. Were all of the houses painted, or plain, or on crooked roads? We ourselves wern’t provided with all of the facts, so we “modded” it to our liking in our mind and went on with the story.

Overall, art is something that is in the perspective of the person experiencing it in my often wrong opinion.

]]> By: Alec Bings http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm/comment-page-1#comment-228721 Alec Bings Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:44:43 +0000 http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm#comment-228721 I had a few thoughts on this subject. Personally, I'm particularly excited about the ways in which games can explore the emergent, audience-based elements fundamental to good art. I wrote about it <a href="http://castle-in-the-air.com/2007/07/23/games-as-art-a-hearty-yes-they-are/" rel="nofollow">here </a> and <a href="http://castle-in-the-air.com/2007/07/24/more-thoughts-on-games-as-art/" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and I'd love to hear other's thoughts on the topic. I had a few thoughts on this subject. Personally, I’m particularly excited about the ways in which games can explore the emergent, audience-based elements fundamental to good art. I wrote about it here and here, and I’d love to hear other’s thoughts on the topic.

]]> By: astrotriforce http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm/comment-page-1#comment-228690 astrotriforce Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:34:02 +0000 http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm#comment-228690 Yeah I totally agree J1n. Matter of fact, he's lost much respect in my eyes after his "games are not art" comments, and I personally think these kinds of comments negatively effect his image. Cause no matter what he says, a lot of people play games. Yeah I totally agree J1n. Matter of fact, he’s lost much respect in my eyes after his “games are not art” comments, and I personally think these kinds of comments negatively effect his image. Cause no matter what he says, a lot of people play games.

]]> By: J1n http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm/comment-page-1#comment-228681 J1n Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:11:19 +0000 http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm#comment-228681 It shocks me how so many people valued his opinion on movies. I honestly don't understand why he can call Clive Barker as mature as a 4 year old, when his entire argument is "nope, your wrong". I guess he must be "prejudiced" for himself. It shocks me how so many people valued his opinion on movies. I honestly don’t understand why he can call Clive Barker as mature as a 4 year old, when his entire argument is “nope, your wrong”. I guess he must be “prejudiced” for himself.

]]> By: supadupagama http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm/comment-page-1#comment-228614 supadupagama Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:37:20 +0000 http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/07/30/film-critic-roger-ebert-still-insists-that-video-games-are-not-art.htm#comment-228614 Couldn't agree more Astro, what Roger says is just as silly as me saying films are not art. Couldn’t agree more Astro, what Roger says is just as silly as me saying films are not art.

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